Starting large VMs takes quite long

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Starting large VMs takes quite long

Till Mossakowski
Hi,

I have set up openstack using stackops.
I have installed one controller node and one compute node (each using
two 1GBit NICs), following the book "Deploying Openstack".
I am using nova-objectstore for storing images.

Now starting a machine with a 5G image takes quite a while, probably
because the image is mounted via nfs to the compute node.

With libvirt, I am used to start VMs instantly. Is there a way to do the
same with openstack? The image would need to be stored directly on the
compute node, of course. Ideally, in a network with more nodes, the lots
of images I have would be distributed to compute nodes in advance, and a
special scheduler would select a compute node holding the needed image.
Is this possible with openstack?

Best,
Till

--
Prof. Dr. Till Mossakowski  Cartesium, room 2.51 Phone +49-421-218-64226
DFKI GmbH Bremen                             Fax +49-421-218-9864226
Safe & Secure Cognitive Systems             Till.Mossakowski at dfki.de
Enrique-Schmidt-Str. 5, D-28359 Bremen   http://www.dfki.de/sks/till

Deutsches Forschungszentrum fuer Kuenstliche Intelligenz GmbH
principal office, *not* the address for mail etc.!!!:
Trippstadter Str. 122, D-67663 Kaiserslautern
management board: Prof. Wolfgang Wahlster (chair), Dr. Walter Olthoff
supervisory board: Prof. Hans A. Aukes (chair)
Amtsgericht Kaiserslautern, HRB 2313

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Starting large VMs takes quite long

Diego Parrilla
Hi,

my answers below,

On Wed, Oct 19, 2011 at 6:04 PM, Till Mossakowski
<Till.Mossakowski at dfki.de>wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I have set up openstack using stackops.
>

Good choice ;-)


> I have installed one controller node and one compute node (each using two
> 1GBit NICs), following the book "Deploying Openstack".
> I am using nova-objectstore for storing images.
>
> Now starting a machine with a 5G image takes quite a while, probably
> because the image is mounted via nfs to the compute node.
>

5GB image it's not too big... we use NFS to share instances among nodes to
help with the live migration and performance it's acceptable. How much is
'quite a while' in seconds?


>
> With libvirt, I am used to start VMs instantly. Is there a way to do the
> same with openstack? The image would need to be stored directly on the
> compute node, of course. Ideally, in a network with more nodes, the lots of
> images I have would be distributed to compute nodes in advance, and a
> special scheduler would select a compute node holding the needed image. Is
> this possible with openstack?
>

If you share the /var/lib/nova/instances with NFS, during the 'launch'
process the base virtual image is copied to '_base'. Depending on the size
of this file it will take longer. Once it's copied next time you use this
image it should go much faster.

Note: I have tested right now with a 1Gb launching a >25GB Windows VM and it
took 3-4 minutes the first time. New Windows images, it took only a few
seconds.


>
> Best,
> Till
>
> --
> Prof. Dr. Till Mossakowski  Cartesium, room 2.51 Phone +49-421-218-64226
> DFKI GmbH Bremen                             Fax +49-421-218-9864226
> Safe & Secure Cognitive Systems             Till.Mossakowski at dfki.de
> Enrique-Schmidt-Str. 5, D-28359 Bremen   http://www.dfki.de/sks/till
>
> Deutsches Forschungszentrum fuer Kuenstliche Intelligenz GmbH
> principal office, *not* the address for mail etc.!!!:
> Trippstadter Str. 122, D-67663 Kaiserslautern
> management board: Prof. Wolfgang Wahlster (chair), Dr. Walter Olthoff
> supervisory board: Prof. Hans A. Aukes (chair)
> Amtsgericht Kaiserslautern, HRB 2313
> ______________________________**_________________
> Openstack-operators mailing list
> Openstack-operators at lists.**openstack.org<Openstack-operators at lists.openstack.org>
> http://lists.openstack.org/**cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/**
> openstack-operators<http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-operators>
>


--
Diego Parrilla
<http://www.stackops.com/>*CEO*
*www.stackops.com | * diego.parrilla at stackops.com** | +34 649 94 43 29 |
skype:diegoparrilla*
* <http://www.stackops.com/>
*

*

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Starting large VMs takes quite long

Till Mossakowski
Hi,

> my answers below,

many thanks for your quick answer.

>     I have set up openstack using stackops.
>
>
> Good choice ;-)

Yes, the stackops GUI is very nice. However, stackops is based on
cactus, right? Is there a way of using diablo with stackops? Perhaps it
is possible to upgrade the Ubuntu lucid distro that is coming with
stackops to natty or oneiric and then upgrade to diablo using the source
ppa:openstack-release/2011.3 for openstack?

> 5GB image it's not too big... we use NFS to share instances among nodes
> to help with the live migration and performance it's acceptable. How
> much is 'quite a while' in seconds?

between half a minute and a minute (I haven't taken the exact time...).
This is too long for our users.

> If you share the /var/lib/nova/instances with NFS, during the 'launch'
> process the base virtual image is copied to '_base'. Depending on the
> size of this file it will take longer. Once it's copied next time you
> use this image it should go much faster.
>
> Note: I have tested right now with a 1Gb launching a >25GB Windows VM
> and it took 3-4 minutes the first time. New Windows images, it took only
> a few seconds.

This is interesting. Is there a way of telling the scheduler to prefer a
compute node that already has copied the needed image?

Best, Till

--
Prof. Dr. Till Mossakowski  Cartesium, room 2.51 Phone +49-421-218-64226
DFKI GmbH Bremen                             Fax +49-421-218-9864226
Safe & Secure Cognitive Systems             Till.Mossakowski at dfki.de
Enrique-Schmidt-Str. 5, D-28359 Bremen   http://www.dfki.de/sks/till

Deutsches Forschungszentrum fuer Kuenstliche Intelligenz GmbH
principal office, *not* the address for mail etc.!!!:
Trippstadter Str. 122, D-67663 Kaiserslautern
management board: Prof. Wolfgang Wahlster (chair), Dr. Walter Olthoff
supervisory board: Prof. Hans A. Aukes (chair)
Amtsgericht Kaiserslautern, HRB 2313

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Starting large VMs takes quite long

Diego Parrilla
Hi,

my answers below.

On Wed, Oct 19, 2011 at 8:12 PM, Till Mossakowski
<Till.Mossakowski at dfki.de>wrote:

> Hi,
>
>  my answers below,
>>
>
> many thanks for your quick answer.
>
>
>     I have set up openstack using stackops.
>>
>>
>> Good choice ;-)
>>
>
> Yes, the stackops GUI is very nice. However, stackops is based on cactus,
> right? Is there a way of using diablo with stackops? Perhaps it is possible
> to upgrade the Ubuntu lucid distro that is coming with stackops to natty or
> oneiric and then upgrade to diablo using the source
> ppa:openstack-release/2011.3 for openstack?


Yes, the 0.3 version with Diablo release is coming. We detected some QA
issues. But things are working much better now.


>
>
>  5GB image it's not too big... we use NFS to share instances among nodes
>> to help with the live migration and performance it's acceptable. How
>> much is 'quite a while' in seconds?
>>
>
> between half a minute and a minute (I haven't taken the exact time...).
> This is too long for our users.


If the virtual disks are cached, launching a 40GB virtual machine takes less
than 5 seconds in our test platform (IBM x3550M3 Dual Xeon 5620 64GB with
NFS as shared storage on 1Gb)


>
>
>  If you share the /var/lib/nova/instances with NFS, during the 'launch'
>> process the base virtual image is copied to '_base'. Depending on the
>> size of this file it will take longer. Once it's copied next time you
>> use this image it should go much faster.
>>
>> Note: I have tested right now with a 1Gb launching a >25GB Windows VM
>> and it took 3-4 minutes the first time. New Windows images, it took only
>> a few seconds.
>>
>
> This is interesting. Is there a way of telling the scheduler to prefer a
> compute node that already has copied the needed image?


Try this:

1) Configure the compute nodes to use a shared directory with NFS on
/var/lib/nova/instances
2) Launch ALL the virtual disks you need at runtime. It will take a while
the first time.
3) Virtual disks are now cached in /var/lib/nova/instances/_base
4) Try to launch now the virtual disks again. They should start very fast.

If you need some kind of assistance, please let me know.

Regards
Diego


>
>
> Best, Till
>
> --
> Prof. Dr. Till Mossakowski  Cartesium, room 2.51 Phone +49-421-218-64226
> DFKI GmbH Bremen                             Fax +49-421-218-9864226
> Safe & Secure Cognitive Systems             Till.Mossakowski at dfki.de
> Enrique-Schmidt-Str. 5, D-28359 Bremen   http://www.dfki.de/sks/till
>
> Deutsches Forschungszentrum fuer Kuenstliche Intelligenz GmbH
> principal office, *not* the address for mail etc.!!!:
> Trippstadter Str. 122, D-67663 Kaiserslautern
> management board: Prof. Wolfgang Wahlster (chair), Dr. Walter Olthoff
> supervisory board: Prof. Hans A. Aukes (chair)
> Amtsgericht Kaiserslautern, HRB 2313
>


--
Diego Parrilla
<http://www.stackops.com/>*CEO*
*www.stackops.com | * diego.parrilla at stackops.com** | +34 649 94 43 29 |
skype:diegoparrilla*
* <http://www.stackops.com/>
*

*

******************** ADVERTENCIA LEGAL ********************
Le informamos, como destinatario de este mensaje, que el correo electr?nico
y las comunicaciones por medio de Internet no permiten asegurar ni
garantizar la confidencialidad de los mensajes transmitidos, as? como
tampoco su integridad o su correcta recepci?n, por lo que STACKOPS
TECHNOLOGIES S.L. no asume responsabilidad alguna por tales circunstancias.
Si no consintiese en la utilizaci?n del correo electr?nico o de las
comunicaciones v?a Internet le rogamos nos lo comunique y ponga en nuestro
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utilizaci?n de este mensaje, o de cualquier documento adjunto al mismo,
cualquiera que fuera su finalidad, est?n prohibidas por la ley.

***************** PRIVILEGED AND CONFIDENTIAL ****************
We hereby inform you, as addressee of this message, that e-mail and Internet
do not guarantee the confidentiality, nor the completeness or proper
reception of the messages sent and, thus, STACKOPS TECHNOLOGIES S.L. does
not assume any liability for those circumstances. Should you not agree to
the use of e-mail or to communications via Internet, you are kindly
requested to notify us immediately. This message is intended exclusively for
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Starting large VMs takes quite long

Boris-Michel Deschenes
Hi guys,

Just a quick note, I had this setup at some point (NFS-mounted /var/lib/nova/instances) which is essential to get live VM migrations if I'm not mistaken (live migration was working perfectly).  The problem I had with this setup was that the VM startup time was considerably slower than when the images were residing on a local disk (and I mean, even after all images are "cached").

Basically an image will start the fastest when it is cached locally (local drive)
Then, not quite as fast when cached but on a NFS-mounted directory
Then really slowly when residing entirely on another disk and needed to be written locally to be cached

These are the observations I made but I realize other factors weigh in (SAS vs SATA disk, network speed, etc.)  Please advise if you get the same speed in NFS-cached vs local-cached setup as it might convince me to go back to an NFS share (also were you using SAS disks to serve the NFS?).

Thanks

De : openstack-operators-bounces at lists.openstack.org [mailto:openstack-operators-bounces at lists.openstack.org] De la part de Diego Parrilla
Envoy? : 20 octobre 2011 04:54
? : Till Mossakowski
Cc : openstack-operators at lists.openstack.org
Objet : Re: [Openstack-operators] Starting large VMs takes quite long

Hi,

my answers below.

On Wed, Oct 19, 2011 at 8:12 PM, Till Mossakowski <Till.Mossakowski at dfki.de<mailto:Till.Mossakowski at dfki.de>> wrote:
Hi,
my answers below,

many thanks for your quick answer.

   I have set up openstack using stackops.


Good choice ;-)

Yes, the stackops GUI is very nice. However, stackops is based on cactus, right? Is there a way of using diablo with stackops? Perhaps it is possible to upgrade the Ubuntu lucid distro that is coming with stackops to natty or oneiric and then upgrade to diablo using the source ppa:openstack-release/2011.3 for openstack?

Yes, the 0.3 version with Diablo release is coming. We detected some QA issues. But things are working much better now.


5GB image it's not too big... we use NFS to share instances among nodes
to help with the live migration and performance it's acceptable. How
much is 'quite a while' in seconds?

between half a minute and a minute (I haven't taken the exact time...).
This is too long for our users.

If the virtual disks are cached, launching a 40GB virtual machine takes less than 5 seconds in our test platform (IBM x3550M3 Dual Xeon 5620 64GB with NFS as shared storage on 1Gb)


If you share the /var/lib/nova/instances with NFS, during the 'launch'
process the base virtual image is copied to '_base'. Depending on the
size of this file it will take longer. Once it's copied next time you
use this image it should go much faster.

Note: I have tested right now with a 1Gb launching a >25GB Windows VM
and it took 3-4 minutes the first time. New Windows images, it took only
a few seconds.

This is interesting. Is there a way of telling the scheduler to prefer a compute node that already has copied the needed image?

Try this:

1) Configure the compute nodes to use a shared directory with NFS on /var/lib/nova/instances
2) Launch ALL the virtual disks you need at runtime. It will take a while the first time.
3) Virtual disks are now cached in /var/lib/nova/instances/_base
4) Try to launch now the virtual disks again. They should start very fast.

If you need some kind of assistance, please let me know.

Regards
Diego



Best, Till

--
Prof. Dr. Till Mossakowski  Cartesium, room 2.51 Phone +49-421-218-64226<tel:%2B49-421-218-64226>
DFKI GmbH Bremen                             Fax +49-421-218-9864226<tel:%2B49-421-218-9864226>
Safe & Secure Cognitive Systems             Till.Mossakowski at dfki.de<mailto:Till.Mossakowski at dfki.de>
Enrique-Schmidt-Str. 5, D-28359 Bremen   http://www.dfki.de/sks/till

Deutsches Forschungszentrum fuer Kuenstliche Intelligenz GmbH
principal office, *not* the address for mail etc.!!!:
Trippstadter Str. 122, D-67663 Kaiserslautern
management board: Prof. Wolfgang Wahlster (chair), Dr. Walter Olthoff
supervisory board: Prof. Hans A. Aukes (chair)
Amtsgericht Kaiserslautern, HRB 2313


--
Diego Parrilla
CEO
www.stackops.com<http://www.stackops.com/> |  diego.parrilla at stackops.com<mailto:diego.parrilla at stackops.com> | +34 649 94 43 29 | skype:diegoparrilla
<http://www.stackops.com/>

[cid:~WRD000.jpg]

******************** ADVERTENCIA LEGAL ********************
Le informamos, como destinatario de este mensaje, que el correo electr?nico y las comunicaciones por medio de Internet no permiten asegurar ni garantizar la confidencialidad de los mensajes transmitidos, as? como tampoco su integridad o su correcta recepci?n, por lo que STACKOPS TECHNOLOGIES S.L. no asume responsabilidad alguna por tales circunstancias. Si no consintiese en la utilizaci?n del correo electr?nico o de las comunicaciones v?a Internet le rogamos nos lo comunique y ponga en nuestro conocimiento de manera inmediata. Este mensaje va dirigido, de manera exclusiva, a su destinatario y contiene informaci?n confidencial y sujeta al secreto profesional, cuya divulgaci?n no est? permitida por la ley. En caso de haber recibido este mensaje por error, le rogamos que, de forma inmediata, nos lo comunique mediante correo electr?nico remitido a nuestra atenci?n y proceda a su eliminaci?n, as? como a la de cualquier documento adjunto al mismo. Asimismo, le comunicamos que la distribuci?n, copia o utilizaci?n de este mensaje, o de cualquier documento adjunto al mismo, cualquiera que fuera su finalidad, est?n prohibidas por la ley.

***************** PRIVILEGED AND CONFIDENTIAL ****************
We hereby inform you, as addressee of this message, that e-mail and Internet do not guarantee the confidentiality, nor the completeness or proper reception of the messages sent and, thus, STACKOPS TECHNOLOGIES S.L. does not assume any liability for those circumstances. Should you not agree to the use of e-mail or to communications via Internet, you are kindly requested to notify us immediately. This message is intended exclusively for the person to whom it is addressed and contains privileged and confidential information protected from disclosure by law. If you are not the addressee indicated in this message, you should immediately delete it and any attachments and notify the sender by reply e-mail. In such case, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution, copying or use of this message or any attachments, for any purpose, is strictly prohibited by law.



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Starting large VMs takes quite long

Diego Parrilla
Hi,

my answers below,

On Thu, Oct 20, 2011 at 3:47 PM, Boris-Michel Deschenes <
boris-michel.deschenes at ubisoft.com> wrote:

> Hi guys,****
>
> ** **
>
> Just a quick note, I had this setup at some point (NFS-mounted
> /var/lib/nova/instances) which is essential to get live VM migrations if I?m
> not mistaken (live migration was working perfectly).  The problem I had with
> this setup was that the VM startup time was considerably slower than when
> the images were residing on a local disk (and I mean, even after all images
> are ?cached?).
>

It's true. The fastest disk and the closest to the drive the better.


> ****
>
> ** **
>
> Basically an image will start the fastest when it is cached locally (local
> drive)
>

Correct.


> ****
>
> Then, not quite as fast when cached but on a NFS-mounted directory
>

Correct. It takes some time to create the local disks. It's very important
to have a good connection to the shared file system (it's not mandatory to
use NFS).


> ****
>
> Then really slowly when residing entirely on another disk and needed to be
> written locally to be cached.
>

Right, it can take several minutes on a 1Gb.


> ****
>
> ** **
>
> These are the observations I made but I realize other factors weigh in (SAS
> vs SATA disk, network speed, etc.)  Please advise if you get the same speed
> in NFS-cached vs local-cached setup as it might convince me to go back to an
> NFS share (also were you using SAS disks to serve the NFS?).
>

No, the performance on local disk is much higher than running a NFS on a
1Gb. For my perspective not only live migration is a must for our customers,
but also the local virtual disks must persists a catastrophic failure of a
nova-compute. That's the reason why recommend 10Gb and a good performant NFS
file server connected. 15K or 10K SAS is not so relevant, the bottleneck is
the network (speed and latency). There are also good solutions combining
10Gb + SSD Cache disks + 7.2KRPM SAS/SATA disks.

I would like to know what the people are using in real life deployments. Any
more thoughts?

Regards
Diego


> ****
>
> ** **
>
> Thanks****
>
> ** **
>
> *De :* openstack-operators-bounces at lists.openstack.org [mailto:
> openstack-operators-bounces at lists.openstack.org] *De la part de* Diego
> Parrilla
> *Envoy? :* 20 octobre 2011 04:54
> *? :* Till Mossakowski
> *Cc :* openstack-operators at lists.openstack.org
> *Objet :* Re: [Openstack-operators] Starting large VMs takes quite long***
> *
>
> ** **
>
> Hi, ****
>
> ** **
>
> my answers below.****
>
> ** **
>
> On Wed, Oct 19, 2011 at 8:12 PM, Till Mossakowski <
> Till.Mossakowski at dfki.de> wrote:****
>
> Hi,****
>
> my answers below,****
>
>
> many thanks for your quick answer.****
>
> ** **
>
>    I have set up openstack using stackops.
>
>
> Good choice ;-)****
>
> ** **
>
> Yes, the stackops GUI is very nice. However, stackops is based on cactus,
> right? Is there a way of using diablo with stackops? Perhaps it is possible
> to upgrade the Ubuntu lucid distro that is coming with stackops to natty or
> oneiric and then upgrade to diablo using the source
> ppa:openstack-release/2011.3 for openstack?****
>
> ** **
>
> Yes, the 0.3 version with Diablo release is coming. We detected some QA
> issues. But things are working much better now.****
>
>  ****
>
> ** **
>
> 5GB image it's not too big... we use NFS to share instances among nodes
> to help with the live migration and performance it's acceptable. How
> much is 'quite a while' in seconds?****
>
> ** **
>
> between half a minute and a minute (I haven't taken the exact time...).
> This is too long for our users.****
>
> ** **
>
> If the virtual disks are cached, launching a 40GB virtual machine takes
> less than 5 seconds in our test platform (IBM x3550M3 Dual Xeon 5620 64GB
> with NFS as shared storage on 1Gb)****
>
>  ****
>
> ** **
>
> If you share the /var/lib/nova/instances with NFS, during the 'launch'
> process the base virtual image is copied to '_base'. Depending on the
> size of this file it will take longer. Once it's copied next time you
> use this image it should go much faster.
>
> Note: I have tested right now with a 1Gb launching a >25GB Windows VM
> and it took 3-4 minutes the first time. New Windows images, it took only
> a few seconds.****
>
> ** **
>
> This is interesting. Is there a way of telling the scheduler to prefer a
> compute node that already has copied the needed image?****
>
> ** **
>
> Try this:****
>
> ** **
>
> 1) Configure the compute nodes to use a shared directory with NFS on
> /var/lib/nova/instances****
>
> 2) Launch ALL the virtual disks you need at runtime. It will take a while
> the first time.****
>
> 3) Virtual disks are now cached in /var/lib/nova/instances/_base****
>
> 4) Try to launch now the virtual disks again. They should start very fast.
> ****
>
> ** **
>
> If you need some kind of assistance, please let me know.****
>
> ** **
>
> Regards****
>
> Diego****
>
>  ****
>
>
>
> Best, Till
>
> --
> Prof. Dr. Till Mossakowski  Cartesium, room 2.51 Phone +49-421-218-64226
> DFKI GmbH Bremen                             Fax +49-421-218-9864226
> Safe & Secure Cognitive Systems             Till.Mossakowski at dfki.de
> Enrique-Schmidt-Str. 5, D-28359 Bremen   http://www.dfki.de/sks/till
>
> Deutsches Forschungszentrum fuer Kuenstliche Intelligenz GmbH
> principal office, *not* the address for mail etc.!!!:
> Trippstadter Str. 122, D-67663 Kaiserslautern
> management board: Prof. Wolfgang Wahlster (chair), Dr. Walter Olthoff
> supervisory board: Prof. Hans A. Aukes (chair)
> Amtsgericht Kaiserslautern, HRB 2313****
>
> ** **
>
>
> -- ****
>
> Diego Parrilla
> *CEO*
> *www.stackops.com | * diego.parrilla at stackops.com | +34 649 94 43 29| skype:diegoparrilla
> *
> * <http://www.stackops.com/>****
>
> *[image: Description : Image supprim?e par l'exp?diteur.]***
>
> ******************** ADVERTENCIA LEGAL ********************
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> garantizar la confidencialidad de los mensajes transmitidos, as? como
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> cualquiera que fuera su finalidad, est?n prohibidas por la ley.
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> ***************** PRIVILEGED AND CONFIDENTIAL ****************
> We hereby inform you, as addressee of this message, that e-mail and
> Internet do not guarantee the confidentiality, nor the completeness or
> proper reception of the messages sent and, thus, STACKOPS TECHNOLOGIES S.L.
> does not assume any liability for those circumstances. Should you not agree
> to the use of e-mail or to communications via Internet, you are kindly
> requested to notify us immediately. This message is intended exclusively for
> the person to whom it is addressed and contains privileged and confidential
> information protected from disclosure by law. If you are not the addressee
> indicated in this message, you should immediately delete it and any
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> ** **
>
> ** **
>


--
Diego Parrilla
<http://www.stackops.com/>*CEO*
*www.stackops.com | * diego.parrilla at stackops.com** | +34 649 94 43 29 |
skype:diegoparrilla*
* <http://www.stackops.com/>
*

*

******************** ADVERTENCIA LEGAL ********************
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y las comunicaciones por medio de Internet no permiten asegurar ni
garantizar la confidencialidad de los mensajes transmitidos, as? como
tampoco su integridad o su correcta recepci?n, por lo que STACKOPS
TECHNOLOGIES S.L. no asume responsabilidad alguna por tales circunstancias.
Si no consintiese en la utilizaci?n del correo electr?nico o de las
comunicaciones v?a Internet le rogamos nos lo comunique y ponga en nuestro
conocimiento de manera inmediata. Este mensaje va dirigido, de manera
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secreto profesional, cuya divulgaci?n no est? permitida por la ley. En caso
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utilizaci?n de este mensaje, o de cualquier documento adjunto al mismo,
cualquiera que fuera su finalidad, est?n prohibidas por la ley.

***************** PRIVILEGED AND CONFIDENTIAL ****************
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do not guarantee the confidentiality, nor the completeness or proper
reception of the messages sent and, thus, STACKOPS TECHNOLOGIES S.L. does
not assume any liability for those circumstances. Should you not agree to
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Starting large VMs takes quite long

Ghe Rivero-2
Hi,
Talking about live-migration and shared mount points, has anyone have the
chance to try glusterfs connector? They claim to be able to: "Instantly boot
VMs using a mountable filesystem interface ? no more fetching the entire VM
image before booting" (
http://www.gluster.com/2011/07/27/glusters-shiny-new-connector-for-openstack/
)

See you!

    Ghe Rivero

On Thu, Oct 20, 2011 at 4:03 PM, Diego Parrilla <diego.parrilla at stackops.com
> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> my answers below,
>
> On Thu, Oct 20, 2011 at 3:47 PM, Boris-Michel Deschenes <
> boris-michel.deschenes at ubisoft.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi guys,****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> Just a quick note, I had this setup at some point (NFS-mounted
>> /var/lib/nova/instances) which is essential to get live VM migrations if I?m
>> not mistaken (live migration was working perfectly).  The problem I had with
>> this setup was that the VM startup time was considerably slower than when
>> the images were residing on a local disk (and I mean, even after all images
>> are ?cached?).
>>
>
> It's true. The fastest disk and the closest to the drive the better.
>
>
>> ****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> Basically an image will start the fastest when it is cached locally (local
>> drive)
>>
>
> Correct.
>
>
>> ****
>>
>> Then, not quite as fast when cached but on a NFS-mounted directory
>>
>
> Correct. It takes some time to create the local disks. It's very important
> to have a good connection to the shared file system (it's not mandatory to
> use NFS).
>
>
>> ****
>>
>> Then really slowly when residing entirely on another disk and needed to be
>> written locally to be cached.
>>
>
> Right, it can take several minutes on a 1Gb.
>
>
>> ****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> These are the observations I made but I realize other factors weigh in
>> (SAS vs SATA disk, network speed, etc.)  Please advise if you get the same
>> speed in NFS-cached vs local-cached setup as it might convince me to go back
>> to an NFS share (also were you using SAS disks to serve the NFS?).
>>
>
> No, the performance on local disk is much higher than running a NFS on a
> 1Gb. For my perspective not only live migration is a must for our customers,
> but also the local virtual disks must persists a catastrophic failure of a
> nova-compute. That's the reason why recommend 10Gb and a good performant NFS
> file server connected. 15K or 10K SAS is not so relevant, the bottleneck is
> the network (speed and latency). There are also good solutions combining
> 10Gb + SSD Cache disks + 7.2KRPM SAS/SATA disks.
>
> I would like to know what the people are using in real life deployments.
> Any more thoughts?
>
> Regards
> Diego
>
>
>> ****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> Thanks****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> *De :* openstack-operators-bounces at lists.openstack.org [mailto:
>> openstack-operators-bounces at lists.openstack.org] *De la part de* Diego
>> Parrilla
>> *Envoy? :* 20 octobre 2011 04:54
>> *? :* Till Mossakowski
>> *Cc :* openstack-operators at lists.openstack.org
>> *Objet :* Re: [Openstack-operators] Starting large VMs takes quite long**
>> **
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> Hi, ****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> my answers below.****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> On Wed, Oct 19, 2011 at 8:12 PM, Till Mossakowski <
>> Till.Mossakowski at dfki.de> wrote:****
>>
>> Hi,****
>>
>> my answers below,****
>>
>>
>> many thanks for your quick answer.****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>>    I have set up openstack using stackops.
>>
>>
>> Good choice ;-)****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> Yes, the stackops GUI is very nice. However, stackops is based on cactus,
>> right? Is there a way of using diablo with stackops? Perhaps it is possible
>> to upgrade the Ubuntu lucid distro that is coming with stackops to natty or
>> oneiric and then upgrade to diablo using the source
>> ppa:openstack-release/2011.3 for openstack?****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> Yes, the 0.3 version with Diablo release is coming. We detected some QA
>> issues. But things are working much better now.****
>>
>>  ****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> 5GB image it's not too big... we use NFS to share instances among nodes
>> to help with the live migration and performance it's acceptable. How
>> much is 'quite a while' in seconds?****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> between half a minute and a minute (I haven't taken the exact time...).
>> This is too long for our users.****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> If the virtual disks are cached, launching a 40GB virtual machine takes
>> less than 5 seconds in our test platform (IBM x3550M3 Dual Xeon 5620 64GB
>> with NFS as shared storage on 1Gb)****
>>
>>  ****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> If you share the /var/lib/nova/instances with NFS, during the 'launch'
>> process the base virtual image is copied to '_base'. Depending on the
>> size of this file it will take longer. Once it's copied next time you
>> use this image it should go much faster.
>>
>> Note: I have tested right now with a 1Gb launching a >25GB Windows VM
>> and it took 3-4 minutes the first time. New Windows images, it took only
>> a few seconds.****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> This is interesting. Is there a way of telling the scheduler to prefer a
>> compute node that already has copied the needed image?****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> Try this:****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> 1) Configure the compute nodes to use a shared directory with NFS on
>> /var/lib/nova/instances****
>>
>> 2) Launch ALL the virtual disks you need at runtime. It will take a while
>> the first time.****
>>
>> 3) Virtual disks are now cached in /var/lib/nova/instances/_base****
>>
>> 4) Try to launch now the virtual disks again. They should start very fast.
>> ****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> If you need some kind of assistance, please let me know.****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> Regards****
>>
>> Diego****
>>
>>  ****
>>
>>
>>
>> Best, Till
>>
>> --
>> Prof. Dr. Till Mossakowski  Cartesium, room 2.51 Phone +49-421-218-64226
>> DFKI GmbH Bremen                             Fax +49-421-218-9864226
>> Safe & Secure Cognitive Systems             Till.Mossakowski at dfki.de
>> Enrique-Schmidt-Str. 5, D-28359 Bremen   http://www.dfki.de/sks/till
>>
>> Deutsches Forschungszentrum fuer Kuenstliche Intelligenz GmbH
>> principal office, *not* the address for mail etc.!!!:
>> Trippstadter Str. 122, D-67663 Kaiserslautern
>> management board: Prof. Wolfgang Wahlster (chair), Dr. Walter Olthoff
>> supervisory board: Prof. Hans A. Aukes (chair)
>> Amtsgericht Kaiserslautern, HRB 2313****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>>
>> -- ****
>>
>> Diego Parrilla
>> *CEO*
>> *www.stackops.com | * diego.parrilla at stackops.com | +34 649 94 43 29| skype:diegoparrilla
>> *
>> * <http://www.stackops.com/>****
>>
>> *[image: Description : Image supprim?e par l'exp?diteur.]***
>>
>> ******************** ADVERTENCIA LEGAL ********************
>> Le informamos, como destinatario de este mensaje, que el correo
>> electr?nico y las comunicaciones por medio de Internet no permiten asegurar
>> ni garantizar la confidencialidad de los mensajes transmitidos, as? como
>> tampoco su integridad o su correcta recepci?n, por lo que STACKOPS
>> TECHNOLOGIES S.L. no asume responsabilidad alguna por tales circunstancias.
>> Si no consintiese en la utilizaci?n del correo electr?nico o de las
>> comunicaciones v?a Internet le rogamos nos lo comunique y ponga en nuestro
>> conocimiento de manera inmediata. Este mensaje va dirigido, de manera
>> exclusiva, a su destinatario y contiene informaci?n confidencial y sujeta al
>> secreto profesional, cuya divulgaci?n no est? permitida por la ley. En caso
>> de haber recibido este mensaje por error, le rogamos que, de forma
>> inmediata, nos lo comunique mediante correo electr?nico remitido a nuestra
>> atenci?n y proceda a su eliminaci?n, as? como a la de cualquier documento
>> adjunto al mismo. Asimismo, le comunicamos que la distribuci?n, copia o
>> utilizaci?n de este mensaje, o de cualquier documento adjunto al mismo,
>> cualquiera que fuera su finalidad, est?n prohibidas por la ley.
>>
>> ***************** PRIVILEGED AND CONFIDENTIAL ****************
>> We hereby inform you, as addressee of this message, that e-mail and
>> Internet do not guarantee the confidentiality, nor the completeness or
>> proper reception of the messages sent and, thus, STACKOPS TECHNOLOGIES S.L.
>> does not assume any liability for those circumstances. Should you not agree
>> to the use of e-mail or to communications via Internet, you are kindly
>> requested to notify us immediately. This message is intended exclusively for
>> the person to whom it is addressed and contains privileged and confidential
>> information protected from disclosure by law. If you are not the addressee
>> indicated in this message, you should immediately delete it and any
>> attachments and notify the sender by reply e-mail. In such case, you are
>> hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution, copying or use of this
>> message or any attachments, for any purpose, is strictly prohibited by law.
>> ****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> ** **
>>
>
>
> --
> Diego Parrilla
> <http://www.stackops.com/>*CEO*
> *www.stackops.com | * diego.parrilla at stackops.com** | +34 649 94 43 29 |
> skype:diegoparrilla*
> * <http://www.stackops.com/>
> *
>
> *
>
> ******************** ADVERTENCIA LEGAL ********************
> Le informamos, como destinatario de este mensaje, que el correo electr?nico
> y las comunicaciones por medio de Internet no permiten asegurar ni
> garantizar la confidencialidad de los mensajes transmitidos, as? como
> tampoco su integridad o su correcta recepci?n, por lo que STACKOPS
> TECHNOLOGIES S.L. no asume responsabilidad alguna por tales circunstancias.
> Si no consintiese en la utilizaci?n del correo electr?nico o de las
> comunicaciones v?a Internet le rogamos nos lo comunique y ponga en nuestro
> conocimiento de manera inmediata. Este mensaje va dirigido, de manera
> exclusiva, a su destinatario y contiene informaci?n confidencial y sujeta al
> secreto profesional, cuya divulgaci?n no est? permitida por la ley. En caso
> de haber recibido este mensaje por error, le rogamos que, de forma
> inmediata, nos lo comunique mediante correo electr?nico remitido a nuestra
> atenci?n y proceda a su eliminaci?n, as? como a la de cualquier documento
> adjunto al mismo. Asimismo, le comunicamos que la distribuci?n, copia o
> utilizaci?n de este mensaje, o de cualquier documento adjunto al mismo,
> cualquiera que fuera su finalidad, est?n prohibidas por la ley.
>
> ***************** PRIVILEGED AND CONFIDENTIAL ****************
> We hereby inform you, as addressee of this message, that e-mail and
> Internet do not guarantee the confidentiality, nor the completeness or
> proper reception of the messages sent and, thus, STACKOPS TECHNOLOGIES S.L.
> does not assume any liability for those circumstances. Should you not agree
> to the use of e-mail or to communications via Internet, you are kindly
> requested to notify us immediately. This message is intended exclusively for
> the person to whom it is addressed and contains privileged and confidential
> information protected from disclosure by law. If you are not the addressee
> indicated in this message, you should immediately delete it and any
> attachments and notify the sender by reply e-mail. In such case, you are
> hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution, copying or use of this
> message or any attachments, for any purpose, is strictly prohibited by law.
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-operators
>
>


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: :' :
`. `'
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Starting large VMs takes quite long

Christian Wittwer
"The Gluster Connector for OpenStack", it's ridiculous. Have a look at
the docs, they've done nothing concering Openstack compute.
 => http://www.gluster.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/Gluster-Openstack-VM-storage-v1-shehjar.pdf
They just create a normal gluster volume and store the vms on it. That
was even possible before, ?I had that setup running long before.

Christian

> 2011/10/21 ghe. rivero <ghe.rivero at gmail.com>
>>
>> Hi,
>> Talking about live-migration and shared mount points, has anyone have the chance to try glusterfs connector? They claim to be able to: "Instantly boot VMs using a mountable filesystem interface ? no more fetching the entire VM image before booting" (http://www.gluster.com/2011/07/27/glusters-shiny-new-connector-for-openstack/)
>> See you!
>> ? ? Ghe Rivero
>> On Thu, Oct 20, 2011 at 4:03 PM, Diego Parrilla <diego.parrilla at stackops.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi,
>>> my answers below,
>>>
>>> On Thu, Oct 20, 2011 at 3:47 PM, Boris-Michel Deschenes <boris-michel.deschenes at ubisoft.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hi guys,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Just a quick note, I had this setup at some point (NFS-mounted /var/lib/nova/instances) which is essential to get live VM migrations if I?m not mistaken (live migration was working perfectly).? The problem I had with this setup was that the VM startup time was considerably slower than when the images were residing on a local disk (and I mean, even after all images are ?cached?).
>>>
>>> It's true. The fastest disk and the closest to the drive the better.
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Basically an image will start the fastest when it is cached locally (local drive)
>>>
>>> Correct.
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Then, not quite as fast when cached but on a NFS-mounted directory
>>>
>>> Correct. It takes some time to create the local disks. It's very important to have a good connection to the shared file system (it's not mandatory to use NFS).
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Then really slowly when residing entirely on another disk and needed to be written locally to be cached.
>>>
>>> Right, it can take several minutes on a 1Gb.
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> These are the observations I made but I realize other factors weigh in (SAS vs SATA disk, network speed, etc.)? Please advise if you get the same speed in NFS-cached vs local-cached setup as it might convince me to go back to an NFS share (also were you using SAS disks to serve the NFS?).
>>>
>>> No, the performance on local disk is much higher than running a NFS on a 1Gb. For my perspective not only live migration is a must for our customers, but also the local virtual disks must persists a catastrophic failure of a nova-compute. That's the reason why recommend 10Gb and a good performant NFS file server connected. 15K or 10K SAS is not so relevant, the bottleneck is the network (speed and latency). There are also good solutions combining 10Gb + SSD Cache disks + 7.2KRPM SAS/SATA disks.
>>> I would like to know what the people are using in real life deployments. Any more thoughts?
>>> Regards
>>> Diego
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Thanks
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> De?: openstack-operators-bounces at lists.openstack.org [mailto:openstack-operators-bounces at lists.openstack.org] De la part de Diego Parrilla
>>>> Envoy??: 20 octobre 2011 04:54
>>>> ??: Till Mossakowski
>>>> Cc?: openstack-operators at lists.openstack.org
>>>> Objet?: Re: [Openstack-operators] Starting large VMs takes quite long
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> my answers below.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Oct 19, 2011 at 8:12 PM, Till Mossakowski <Till.Mossakowski at dfki.de> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>> my answers below,
>>>>
>>>> many thanks for your quick answer.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ? ?I have set up openstack using stackops.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Good choice ;-)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Yes, the stackops GUI is very nice. However, stackops is based on cactus, right? Is there a way of using diablo with stackops? Perhaps it is possible to upgrade the Ubuntu lucid distro that is coming with stackops to natty or oneiric and then upgrade to diablo using the source ppa:openstack-release/2011.3 for openstack?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Yes, the 0.3 version with Diablo release is coming. We detected some QA issues. But things are working much better now.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 5GB image it's not too big... we use NFS to share instances among nodes
>>>> to help with the live migration and performance it's acceptable. How
>>>> much is 'quite a while' in seconds?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> between half a minute and a minute (I haven't taken the exact time...).
>>>> This is too long for our users.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> If the virtual disks are cached, launching a 40GB virtual machine takes less than 5 seconds in our test platform (IBM x3550M3 Dual Xeon 5620 64GB with NFS as shared storage on 1Gb)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> If you share the /var/lib/nova/instances with NFS, during the 'launch'
>>>> process the base virtual image is copied to '_base'. Depending on the
>>>> size of this file it will take longer. Once it's copied next time you
>>>> use this image it should go much faster.
>>>>
>>>> Note: I have tested right now with a 1Gb launching a >25GB Windows VM
>>>> and it took 3-4 minutes the first time. New Windows images, it took only
>>>> a few seconds.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> This is interesting. Is there a way of telling the scheduler to prefer a compute node that already has copied the needed image?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Try this:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 1) Configure the compute nodes to use a shared directory with NFS on /var/lib/nova/instances
>>>>
>>>> 2) Launch ALL the virtual disks you need at runtime. It will take a while the first time.
>>>>
>>>> 3) Virtual disks are now cached in /var/lib/nova/instances/_base
>>>>
>>>> 4) Try to launch now the virtual disks again. They should start very fast.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> If you need some kind of assistance, please let me know.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Regards
>>>>
>>>> Diego
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Best, Till
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Prof. Dr. Till Mossakowski ?Cartesium, room 2.51 Phone +49-421-218-64226
>>>> DFKI GmbH Bremen ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Fax +49-421-218-9864226
>>>> Safe & Secure Cognitive Systems ? ? ? ? ? ? Till.Mossakowski at dfki.de
>>>> Enrique-Schmidt-Str. 5, D-28359 Bremen ? http://www.dfki.de/sks/till
>>>>
>>>> Deutsches Forschungszentrum fuer Kuenstliche Intelligenz GmbH
>>>> principal office, *not* the address for mail etc.!!!:
>>>> Trippstadter Str. 122, D-67663 Kaiserslautern
>>>> management board: Prof. Wolfgang Wahlster (chair), Dr. Walter Olthoff
>>>> supervisory board: Prof. Hans A. Aukes (chair)
>>>> Amtsgericht Kaiserslautern, HRB 2313
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>>
>>>> Diego Parrilla
>>>> CEO
>>>> www.stackops.com?|??diego.parrilla at stackops.com?|?+34 649 94 43 29 |?skype:diegoparrilla
>>>>
>>>> ******************** ADVERTENCIA LEGAL ********************
>>>> Le informamos, como destinatario de este mensaje, que el correo electr?nico y las comunicaciones por medio de Internet no permiten asegurar ni garantizar la confidencialidad de los mensajes transmitidos, as? como tampoco su integridad o su correcta recepci?n, por lo que STACKOPS TECHNOLOGIES S.L. no asume responsabilidad alguna por tales circunstancias. Si no consintiese en la utilizaci?n del correo electr?nico o de las comunicaciones v?a Internet le rogamos nos lo comunique y ponga en nuestro conocimiento de manera inmediata. Este mensaje va dirigido, de manera exclusiva, a su destinatario y contiene informaci?n confidencial y sujeta al secreto profesional, cuya divulgaci?n no est? permitida por la ley. En caso de haber recibido este mensaje por error, le rogamos que, de forma inmediata, nos lo comunique mediante correo electr?nico remitido a nuestra atenci?n y proceda a su eliminaci?n, as? como a la de cualquier documento adjunto al mismo. Asimismo, le comunicamos que la distribuci?n, copia o utilizaci?n de este mensaje, o de cualquier documento adjunto al mismo, cualquiera que fuera su finalidad, est?n prohibidas por la ley.
>>>>
>>>> ***************** PRIVILEGED AND CONFIDENTIAL ****************
>>>> We hereby inform you, as addressee of this message, that e-mail and Internet do not guarantee the confidentiality, nor the completeness or proper reception of the messages sent and, thus, STACKOPS TECHNOLOGIES S.L. does not assume any liability for those circumstances. Should you not agree to the use of e-mail or to communications via Internet, you are kindly requested to notify us immediately. This message is intended exclusively for the person to whom it is addressed and contains privileged and confidential information protected from disclosure by law. If you are not the addressee indicated in this message, you should immediately delete it and any attachments and notify the sender by reply e-mail. In such case, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution, copying or use of this message or any attachments, for any purpose, is strictly prohibited by law.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Diego Parrilla
>>> CEO
>>> www.stackops.com?|??diego.parrilla at stackops.com?|?+34 649 94 43 29 |?skype:diegoparrilla
>>>
>>> ******************** ADVERTENCIA LEGAL ********************
>>> Le informamos, como destinatario de este mensaje, que el correo electr?nico y las comunicaciones por medio de Internet no permiten asegurar ni garantizar la confidencialidad de los mensajes transmitidos, as? como tampoco su integridad o su correcta recepci?n, por lo que STACKOPS TECHNOLOGIES S.L. no asume responsabilidad alguna por tales circunstancias. Si no consintiese en la utilizaci?n del correo electr?nico o de las comunicaciones v?a Internet le rogamos nos lo comunique y ponga en nuestro conocimiento de manera inmediata. Este mensaje va dirigido, de manera exclusiva, a su destinatario y contiene informaci?n confidencial y sujeta al secreto profesional, cuya divulgaci?n no est? permitida por la ley. En caso de haber recibido este mensaje por error, le rogamos que, de forma inmediata, nos lo comunique mediante correo electr?nico remitido a nuestra atenci?n y proceda a su eliminaci?n, as? como a la de cualquier documento adjunto al mismo. Asimismo, le comunicamos que la distribuci?n, copia o utilizaci?n de este mensaje, o de cualquier documento adjunto al mismo, cualquiera que fuera su finalidad, est?n prohibidas por la ley.
>>>
>>> ***************** PRIVILEGED AND CONFIDENTIAL ****************
>>> We hereby inform you, as addressee of this message, that e-mail and Internet do not guarantee the confidentiality, nor the completeness or proper reception of the messages sent and, thus, STACKOPS TECHNOLOGIES S.L. does not assume any liability for those circumstances. Should you not agree to the use of e-mail or to communications via Internet, you are kindly requested to notify us immediately. This message is intended exclusively for the person to whom it is addressed and contains privileged and confidential information protected from disclosure by law. If you are not the addressee indicated in this message, you should immediately delete it and any attachments and notify the sender by reply e-mail. In such case, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution, copying or use of this message or any attachments, for any purpose, is strictly prohibited by law.
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Openstack-operators mailing list
>>> Openstack-operators at lists.openstack.org
>>> http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-operators
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> ?.''`.? Pienso, Luego Incordio
>> : :' :
>> `. `'
>> ? `-? ? www.debian.org? ? www.hispalinux.es
>>
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